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About Casey Yano
Casey Yano is a true innovator in the gaming world, known for his unique blend of creativity and technical skill. As a co-founder of MegaCrit Games and one of the brains behind the hit game "Slay the Spire," Casey's approach to game design is about embracing the grind and paying attention to the little things that make the biggest differences. In this episode, we discuss his early days with game testing and the massive success of "Slay the Spire." It’s a fantastic conversation with someone who's not just shaping games but also shaping the way we think about game design.
Ah-ha! Justin’s Takeaways
Weekly Build Review Sessions: For indy games with small review teams, implementing a weekly "Build Review," where one team member plays through the entire game while others observe, can be a powerful tool for improvement. These reviews allow for collaborative discussion on issues, which leads to more effectively prioritized tasks.
Note: Since recording this episode, the Stone Blade team has already started to do build reviews for the upcoming SolForge Fusion Digital, and we’re making a tremendous amount of progress thanks to this type of review session.
Strategic Patch Updates as Marketing: Casey's insights reinforced the strategic value of using patch updates as a marketing tool. These updates not only address critical issues but also enhance popular features, keeping the team aligned on continually improving the product. They also show the players that you are listening to their concerns and continue to focus on the game they care about.
Leveraging Influencer Marketing: Casey emphasized the effectiveness of using Steam codes and influencer partnerships for promotion. For indy games, utilizing platforms like Keymailer is crucial for distributing Steam keys to influencers and amplifying game visibility and reach.
Focus on the Long Game: Casey's story of Slay the Spire's initial launch highlights the importance of persistent effort. Unlike AAA titles that often rely on massive launches, indie games thrive on ongoing development and community growth. Making sure to engage with the fan base, developing updates to the game regularly, and consistently streaming content were keys to Slay the Spire’s success.
Show Notes
Leveraging Skills and a Love of the Grind (0:00:00 - 00:08:23)
“I really like tedious work. I’m a big fan of just chipping away at something.”
Casey Yano didn’t always want to be a game designer; he started his career as a game tester at Microsoft to make some pocket change. His bi-lingual (English and Japanese) skills immediately landed him this job. Here, we discuss using your skills as a stepping stone into the industry you’re interested in. This is also a lesson in building more skill sets, as you never know where a skill might land you.
Yano shares a passion for the 'grind' which is inherent in the gaming industry. The constant cycle of testing and iterating, despite its tedious nature, is critical in game development. This conversation explores how embracing such repetitive tasks can also be a conduit for creativity. Yano's experience shows us that a love for meticulous work, often seen as a prerequisite in gaming, can also fuel innovation and artistic growth.
UI/UX and the Application of Feedback (00:08:28 - 00:28:57)
“There’s a button that we spent several days on in Slay the Spire, and I still don’t think its perfect.”
UI/UX (user interface/user experience) is an essential aspect of game design for both digital and physical games. In this discussion, Casey explores his contribution to creating the UI/UX for Slay the Spire. He reveals a ton of valuable insights and anecdotes, demonstrating how he honed his skills in understanding UI/UX. The segment focuses on the importance of playtesting and the gathering, interpretation, and implementation of player feedback. Casey also describes a fantastic approach for generating game update tickets, involving someone playing through the game within a 90-minute timeline to identify areas for improvement.
What does it mean to be Q&A Forward (00:31:00 - 00:39:00)
“It’s not about making the designs; it’s about making the thing that people expect from the design.”
Casey talks about his unique approach to game development, starting by envisioning the ideal version of the game rather than strictly adhering to the original design document. He emphasizes understanding the player's perspective, aiming not only to meet but surpass their expectations of the game and its features, which forms a fundamental philosophy in his design approach.
The conversation also touches on how analyzing flaws in other games shapes his creative process. Casey focuses on incorporating elements of enjoyment and engagement, going beyond a well-made and functional system in a game. This is another example of the recurring theme that "player experience is the most important metric."
Designing Algorithmically Generated Games (00:42:40 - 01:01:20)
“We came up with a map system because we wanted to do more planning ahead.”
Stone Blade is currently working on SolForge Fusion, which includes an algorithmically generated campaign mode inspired by Slay the Spire. This segment explores Casey's journey in creating the incredible game Slay The Spire. We explore strategies for balancing expert player feedback during playtesting, using metrics to gauge new players' experiences and difficulties. Casey shares a great story about needing to “panic-nerf” the game just ten days before its release and his reflections on what he views as a disastrous launch. This fascinating discussion includes metrics, playtesting, and streamer/influencer strategies.
Bad launches and good marketing (1:01:20 - 1:16:53)
“Nobody really knows what’s going to be successful.”
Casey details their strategy of distributing game keys for “Slay the Spire” to numerous influencers through a service like Keymailer, leading to influencers becoming hooked and streaming the game. They then monitored how these streamers engaged with the game to inform further updates and modifications. He highlights how weekly updates demonstrate the game's ongoing development to customers and illustrates how player feedback was instrumental in improving the game. He also discusses less effective tactics, such as small social media accounts and game conventions, and shares valuable insights gained from these experiences.
Running a High Trust Company (1:16:53 - 1:31:04)
“We’re a high-trust company. We don’t really track hours. We have communication hours and even those aren’t 100% mandatory.”
Casey contrasts his experience at his own company with his tenure at Amazon, emphasizing how his company thrives on trust, consistent documentation, and healthy conflict. He strongly believes (as I do) in the value of healthy conflict, seeing it as a chance for everyone in the company to challenge ideas confidently. This environment fosters learning, change, growth, and innovation within the teams that can make it work. The episode concludes with a brief exploration of Casey's relationship with Anthony Giovannetti, the co-owner of MegaCrit Games. We examine their distinct skills and differing attributes that contribute to their successful partnership.
The upcoming episode will include Anthony Giovannetti, Casey's colleague, who has been referenced multiple times in this episode. These two episodes will provide a comprehensive story of Slay the Spire, as told from the viewpoints of both creators.
Casey Yano — Designing with Detail in Slay the Spire, Mastering the Gaming Grind, Marketing dos and donts, and Building a High Trust Company Culture (#58)